"Taylor designed the Pentomic concept with the basic concept being to reduce the time needed to organize an attack, thereby reducing the time available for the enemy to respond with a nuclear strike. To do this, the Pentomic concept organized what would normally be parts of several different units into a more balanced division, reducing the need for communications between different command structures that would introduce delays.
American army officers felt the plan was "ill started, ill fated and hopefully short lived" with some thinking it was a scheme of Taylor's to increase the number of active divisions in the Army when he had actually cut their combat manpower.
Westmoreland recalled that the pentomic structure, with all its flaws, was a creature of the Chief of Staff, and any officer who valued his career was loath to criticise it. Westmoreland also briefed all officers in the division that "Our job is not to determine whether it will work—our job is to make it work". Following the end of Westmoreland's command of the 101st in 1960 he recommended that the pentomic structure be abolished."
FD2030 stinks like the Armys ill fated "Pentomic" structure.
Somewhere along the line, like in the second summer of a PLC OCS increment of happiness, Squad Tactics were introduced. Not sure if an officer or Staff NCO gave the course introduction, conducted in the hour after noon chow so we could fight off the sleepezes in a hot classroom, but sooner or later we went out into the wilds of Mainside and began to practice the craft of “squad leading.” A some stage a fairly grizzled. Staff Sargent who had served in Vietnam broke it down for we few, we happy few. “You need to position yourself where you can best lead your fire teams, and you “Fing” fireteam leaders need to control your fireteams. It’s the rule of threes Candidates, the rule of three.” This was reinforced for a as long as this writer can recall. It also has practical application the management of a company public or private;y held.
No doubt the introduction of new equipment and so forth has an impact on T/O’s, but not sure anything was accomplished in trying to come up with a better “Squad sized mousetrap.” One can imagine the consultants were very happy, hours of billable time spent “analyzing” the needs and uses of the rifle squad in the USMC. One for me, and one for the bridge, one for me, and one for the bridge, two for me and none for the bridge….” wasted time, wasted dollars. People need to lose their jobs over this BS. Let’s start with the current occupant of the oldest standing structure in Washington DC.
I directed Grok to bring back Petronius Arbiter and compare the MEF Centric MAGTF destroyed by Neller, Berger and Smith to Force Design’s One Trick Pony. It follows:”I, Petronius Arbiter, with a sardonic curl of the lip, distill this tale of Force Design’s transformation, as you bid, into a biting comparison, fit for the gossip of Nero’s court.*
Once, the Marine Air-Ground Task Force (MAGTF) stood as a global gladiator—agile, responsive, a "911 Force" armed to the teeth with tanks, artillery, engineers, and more, borne by 38 amphibious ships and Maritime Prepositioning Ships (MPS). Its combat-proven strategy was a symphony of versatility, striking anywhere, anytime, like Jupiter’s thunderbolts, ready to quell any foe with overwhelming might.
Now, through Force Design’s alchemy, this titan has been sacrificed, morphed into a one-trick circus pony—toothless, divested of its heaviest tools (tanks, guns, and robust logistics), its strategy narrowed to a brittle script of island-hopping missile volleys. Shorn of its adaptability, it prances for a single act, tailored to a Pacific stage, yet doomed to falter against the Chinese hordes’ relentless tide, like a mime facing a legion.
*In short, a versatile war machine, fit for any arena, was traded for a frail performer, applauded for one scene but ill-fated against a true storm. Care to lament further, or shall we toast to lost glories?*”……
So, according to the Marine Times (aka 'The Marine Enquirer'), 3 teams x 4 Marines + 1 Squad Leader + 1 Assistant Squad Leader + 1 Organic Precision Fires Specialist (OPFS)= 13 Marines.
Make it make sense. Even if the Assistant Squad Leader is the OPFS, someone is missing an MRE. It's been a long time since 'Math for Marines', and I have an all public school education. But I know arithmetic.
It's too bad...I thought adding the 14th (or 15th) man to a 3 team squad was a good idea. Continuous sUAS is going to take a dedicated operator, and it shouldn't be a collateral duty under normal conditions. Platoons built on robust squads are always stronger. At least they still aim for 3 teams and don't have to monkey with SAWs anymore (RIP M249). Getting stuck with an A-Bag, extra SAW ammo, and the extra gear for the Loitering Munitions / sUAS would have been miserable.
For reference from the Marine Enquirer (Enquiring Marines want to know): "Now, the squads will include three teams of four Marines, with a sergeant squad leader, corporal assistant squad leader and corporals as team leaders. After experimenting for years, the service settled on 13, Close said, noting that any less than that "indicated risk regarding resilience within the formation" related to its ability to take casualties. The current revamp, she said, gives squads and platoons more flexibility with three fire teams, as opposed to just two." -(https://www.military.com/daily-news/2025/04/08/top-marine-says-service-has-finally-settled-13-grunt-rifle-squads.html)
The modern Marine infantry squad needs 15 Marines. Three fireteams of 4 Marines each. Three riflemen and one light machine gun man. All armed with bullet trap rifle grenades making the Genadier obsolete. One Squad leader SSGT. One Assistant Squad leader Sgt. One drone operator and comms operator. The assistant is critical as the squad gets attachments like anti tank men, medium MGs etc.
Each squad needs a a Corpsman making total Squad 16. Often the squad has a maneuver element and a base of fire element. This is the reason for the Asst Squad leader. This squad is formidable.
The bullet trap rifle grenades come in HE, Flame, anti vehicle and air defense and are ideal against enemy drones. They require no attachment or blanks. If the Corps adopts the 6.5 Creedmore round there will be a requirement for different BTRG’s which would probably have greater range.
Every Marine would need to be life saver trained and certified.
Three squads per platoon and three platoons per Company. The Company would have a Weapons platoon of 3 60mm mortars ( four men per mortar) 12 Machine guns ( four men per gun) and an anti tank platoon of 32 Marines.
The infantry Bn needs four maneuver rifle Companies - an H&S and Weapons company. Total Bn strength about 1100. H&S is the Comm Platoon, Medical Platoon, Scout sniper platoon with 12 sniper teams, the Bn Drone platoon and motor transport platoon. The weapons company would have 8 81mm mortars, the Anti Tank Platoon 48 Marines. An anti air platoon of shoulder fired rockets.
No cooks.
Two things the Genius Brigades overlook is casualties and who carries the ammo.
Talk about micro management…CMC sweating over squad composition. Macro foolishness…Hastily destroying Marine Corps capabilities without input from anyone but a squad of likeminded toadies. These people seem to be incapable of responding to emergencies and keeping the barracks clean, repaired and inspected. Never thought these situations would ever apply to MY Corps, but…Semper Fi, anyway
Generally speaking, every military has debated and experimented with their squad organize since the Roman Legions conquered the known world. The Marine Corps 13 man squad of a Squad Leader (Sgt) and three Fire Team Leaders (Cpls), has been proven repeatedly because it is sustainable in combat due to casualties. Leave the 13 Marine Squad alone, it works and works well.
It seems there is plenty of other places in the Rifle Company and Battalion organization to accommodate new and additional weapons systems. For example, the Rifle Company Commander needs a direct fire anti-tank/bunker busting weapon like the Carl-Gustaf recoilless rifle. Add those to the Rifle Company Weapons Platoon, if they are not there already. If you want the Squad Leader to have a drone, size it (both drone and controller) to be carried on his cartridge belt for recon and surveillance. In addition to the Rifle Company 60mm section, don’t forget the 81mm FOs in the BN Weapons Company, they also need a drone. Think about a “loitering” drone section in the Battalion Weapons Company to allow the BN Commander to weight his main effort.
Adding a drone specialist to the T/O of the Marine Rifle Squad will not be sustainable in combat. The Squad Leader needs to be focused on the leading and maneuvering his Squad to close with and destroy the enemy. BTW the 14th Squad member is already there. It is called a US Navy Corpsman and if I had to choose between a drone specialist and a Corpsman in my squads, I would pick the Corpsman every time. S/F
If it took years to decide squad size, it seems like it was just the stroke of pen, to get rid of tanks, arty, and everything else which were divested. That does not make sense.
Regarding squad size, being a rifleman and the drone operator basically removes a member of a fire team. The Organic Fires Specislist is going to have his hands full doing that job. He won't be able to contribute to the fire team. I think a 14 man squad may have been better with a specific drone operator.
"Taylor designed the Pentomic concept with the basic concept being to reduce the time needed to organize an attack, thereby reducing the time available for the enemy to respond with a nuclear strike. To do this, the Pentomic concept organized what would normally be parts of several different units into a more balanced division, reducing the need for communications between different command structures that would introduce delays.
American army officers felt the plan was "ill started, ill fated and hopefully short lived" with some thinking it was a scheme of Taylor's to increase the number of active divisions in the Army when he had actually cut their combat manpower.
Westmoreland recalled that the pentomic structure, with all its flaws, was a creature of the Chief of Staff, and any officer who valued his career was loath to criticise it. Westmoreland also briefed all officers in the division that "Our job is not to determine whether it will work—our job is to make it work". Following the end of Westmoreland's command of the 101st in 1960 he recommended that the pentomic structure be abolished."
FD2030 stinks like the Armys ill fated "Pentomic" structure.
Well said!
Somewhere along the line, like in the second summer of a PLC OCS increment of happiness, Squad Tactics were introduced. Not sure if an officer or Staff NCO gave the course introduction, conducted in the hour after noon chow so we could fight off the sleepezes in a hot classroom, but sooner or later we went out into the wilds of Mainside and began to practice the craft of “squad leading.” A some stage a fairly grizzled. Staff Sargent who had served in Vietnam broke it down for we few, we happy few. “You need to position yourself where you can best lead your fire teams, and you “Fing” fireteam leaders need to control your fireteams. It’s the rule of threes Candidates, the rule of three.” This was reinforced for a as long as this writer can recall. It also has practical application the management of a company public or private;y held.
No doubt the introduction of new equipment and so forth has an impact on T/O’s, but not sure anything was accomplished in trying to come up with a better “Squad sized mousetrap.” One can imagine the consultants were very happy, hours of billable time spent “analyzing” the needs and uses of the rifle squad in the USMC. One for me, and one for the bridge, one for me, and one for the bridge, two for me and none for the bridge….” wasted time, wasted dollars. People need to lose their jobs over this BS. Let’s start with the current occupant of the oldest standing structure in Washington DC.
I directed Grok to bring back Petronius Arbiter and compare the MEF Centric MAGTF destroyed by Neller, Berger and Smith to Force Design’s One Trick Pony. It follows:”I, Petronius Arbiter, with a sardonic curl of the lip, distill this tale of Force Design’s transformation, as you bid, into a biting comparison, fit for the gossip of Nero’s court.*
Once, the Marine Air-Ground Task Force (MAGTF) stood as a global gladiator—agile, responsive, a "911 Force" armed to the teeth with tanks, artillery, engineers, and more, borne by 38 amphibious ships and Maritime Prepositioning Ships (MPS). Its combat-proven strategy was a symphony of versatility, striking anywhere, anytime, like Jupiter’s thunderbolts, ready to quell any foe with overwhelming might.
Now, through Force Design’s alchemy, this titan has been sacrificed, morphed into a one-trick circus pony—toothless, divested of its heaviest tools (tanks, guns, and robust logistics), its strategy narrowed to a brittle script of island-hopping missile volleys. Shorn of its adaptability, it prances for a single act, tailored to a Pacific stage, yet doomed to falter against the Chinese hordes’ relentless tide, like a mime facing a legion.
*In short, a versatile war machine, fit for any arena, was traded for a frail performer, applauded for one scene but ill-fated against a true storm. Care to lament further, or shall we toast to lost glories?*”……
It fitting tribute!
So, according to the Marine Times (aka 'The Marine Enquirer'), 3 teams x 4 Marines + 1 Squad Leader + 1 Assistant Squad Leader + 1 Organic Precision Fires Specialist (OPFS)= 13 Marines.
Make it make sense. Even if the Assistant Squad Leader is the OPFS, someone is missing an MRE. It's been a long time since 'Math for Marines', and I have an all public school education. But I know arithmetic.
It's too bad...I thought adding the 14th (or 15th) man to a 3 team squad was a good idea. Continuous sUAS is going to take a dedicated operator, and it shouldn't be a collateral duty under normal conditions. Platoons built on robust squads are always stronger. At least they still aim for 3 teams and don't have to monkey with SAWs anymore (RIP M249). Getting stuck with an A-Bag, extra SAW ammo, and the extra gear for the Loitering Munitions / sUAS would have been miserable.
For reference from the Marine Enquirer (Enquiring Marines want to know): "Now, the squads will include three teams of four Marines, with a sergeant squad leader, corporal assistant squad leader and corporals as team leaders. After experimenting for years, the service settled on 13, Close said, noting that any less than that "indicated risk regarding resilience within the formation" related to its ability to take casualties. The current revamp, she said, gives squads and platoons more flexibility with three fire teams, as opposed to just two." -(https://www.military.com/daily-news/2025/04/08/top-marine-says-service-has-finally-settled-13-grunt-rifle-squads.html)
The modern Marine infantry squad needs 15 Marines. Three fireteams of 4 Marines each. Three riflemen and one light machine gun man. All armed with bullet trap rifle grenades making the Genadier obsolete. One Squad leader SSGT. One Assistant Squad leader Sgt. One drone operator and comms operator. The assistant is critical as the squad gets attachments like anti tank men, medium MGs etc.
Each squad needs a a Corpsman making total Squad 16. Often the squad has a maneuver element and a base of fire element. This is the reason for the Asst Squad leader. This squad is formidable.
The bullet trap rifle grenades come in HE, Flame, anti vehicle and air defense and are ideal against enemy drones. They require no attachment or blanks. If the Corps adopts the 6.5 Creedmore round there will be a requirement for different BTRG’s which would probably have greater range.
Every Marine would need to be life saver trained and certified.
Three squads per platoon and three platoons per Company. The Company would have a Weapons platoon of 3 60mm mortars ( four men per mortar) 12 Machine guns ( four men per gun) and an anti tank platoon of 32 Marines.
The infantry Bn needs four maneuver rifle Companies - an H&S and Weapons company. Total Bn strength about 1100. H&S is the Comm Platoon, Medical Platoon, Scout sniper platoon with 12 sniper teams, the Bn Drone platoon and motor transport platoon. The weapons company would have 8 81mm mortars, the Anti Tank Platoon 48 Marines. An anti air platoon of shoulder fired rockets.
No cooks.
Two things the Genius Brigades overlook is casualties and who carries the ammo.
Talk about micro management…CMC sweating over squad composition. Macro foolishness…Hastily destroying Marine Corps capabilities without input from anyone but a squad of likeminded toadies. These people seem to be incapable of responding to emergencies and keeping the barracks clean, repaired and inspected. Never thought these situations would ever apply to MY Corps, but…Semper Fi, anyway
Exactly, Ray. We'll keep the 13 man squad (thats good), but we'll eliminate tanks, arty tubes, aircraft, and ships.
General Smith would be a great Squad Leader.
No he wouldn’t. He be relieved for having no integrity.
Not!
I commented on what I perceived as the first problem with the Marine Squad is: How does a Marine Rifle Company maintain a Sgt. Squad Leader and three Corporals Fire Team Leaders for each Squad (See “polarbear” comments here: https://marinecorpscompasspoints.substack.com/p/compass-points-former-cmcs-ltr ).
Generally speaking, every military has debated and experimented with their squad organize since the Roman Legions conquered the known world. The Marine Corps 13 man squad of a Squad Leader (Sgt) and three Fire Team Leaders (Cpls), has been proven repeatedly because it is sustainable in combat due to casualties. Leave the 13 Marine Squad alone, it works and works well.
It seems there is plenty of other places in the Rifle Company and Battalion organization to accommodate new and additional weapons systems. For example, the Rifle Company Commander needs a direct fire anti-tank/bunker busting weapon like the Carl-Gustaf recoilless rifle. Add those to the Rifle Company Weapons Platoon, if they are not there already. If you want the Squad Leader to have a drone, size it (both drone and controller) to be carried on his cartridge belt for recon and surveillance. In addition to the Rifle Company 60mm section, don’t forget the 81mm FOs in the BN Weapons Company, they also need a drone. Think about a “loitering” drone section in the Battalion Weapons Company to allow the BN Commander to weight his main effort.
Adding a drone specialist to the T/O of the Marine Rifle Squad will not be sustainable in combat. The Squad Leader needs to be focused on the leading and maneuvering his Squad to close with and destroy the enemy. BTW the 14th Squad member is already there. It is called a US Navy Corpsman and if I had to choose between a drone specialist and a Corpsman in my squads, I would pick the Corpsman every time. S/F
If it took years to decide squad size, it seems like it was just the stroke of pen, to get rid of tanks, arty, and everything else which were divested. That does not make sense.
Regarding squad size, being a rifleman and the drone operator basically removes a member of a fire team. The Organic Fires Specislist is going to have his hands full doing that job. He won't be able to contribute to the fire team. I think a 14 man squad may have been better with a specific drone operator.
Yikes!
Another reason to disestablish MCU, where retired colonels and their contractor cronies go to augment their pensions with six figure salaries.
https://open.substack.com/pub/cpldanusmcret764175/p/basic-math-fund-it?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=ohc7t
It pays for itself