In terms of the Navy-Marine Corps team capabilities, it’s exhilarating to tell Congress “what we were.” It’s painful to tell Congress “what we are today,” which is probably why some don't.
The Marine Corps today is no longer a rapid global response force, capable of fighting and winning against any foe. If you disagree, consider the following:
* 31 amphibious ships with 40% operational readiness = 12 ships to support global requirements; simply not enough to keep two or more MEUs forward deployed continuously or support "surge" requirements.
* 7 MPS ships in two MPSRONs to support global requirements (down from 17 ships in three MPSRONs in 2018).
* A combined arms capability that is devoid of armor, bridging, and most assault breaching; and severely hampered by limited cannon artillery and a loss of resiliency in infantry, aviation, and CSS.
For those who drink the Kool-Aid, please tell me how the Marine Corps is going to rapidly deploy and sustain a robust, combined arms MEB or MEF given the above limitations. And don’t say by using MSC or commercial shipping because the Army will get priority since it has a resilient combined arms and maneuver capability. Also, don't believe for a second that the army is going to give us tanks, bridging, or cannon artillery.
And please don’t use the 14 NSM batteries and 3 TLAM batteries as justification for gutting the Marine Corps’ “toolbox” of capabilities needed to fight and win today. The missile batteries are still limping toward the starting line. When they finally take the field, they will be duplicative of other service capabilities and arguably ineffective given the short- and mid-range of the NSM and TLAM respectively and the subsonic speed of both.
These are the facts and according to John Adams: “Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
"As the official spokesman for FD / FD 2030, I can assure you that Pelican dropships will be used to globally deploy UNSC forces to wherever they are needed. Additionally, Pelican drop ships will also be used, as part of the EABO concept, to resupply USMC forces in the field inside the WEZ. These capabilities have been proven in a series of war-games initiated with 'Halo Combat Evolved' over 20 years ago and most recently vetted in the 'Halo Infinity' wargames."
Reportedly many active-duty Marines read Compass Points posts and check out comments on the site. Let's hope they not only read this comment but they also pass it to those in leadership positions and ask for answers to Jerry McAbee's questions. Are these words from senior Marine Corps officers merely unsupported assertions or are they bold-faced lies. The more often I see them in print the more I believe it is the latter. Sad, indeed!
Sometimes individuals and institutions are delusional. Both the CMC’s comments and those of Congress are either ignorance or deliberate lies. Neither is acceptable when discussing national defense or the lives of Marines. Cold hard facts and precise analysis combined with sterling honesty must be the foundation. Clearly it is not. Congress must stop pretending and the Corps must present the facts. We have become irrelevant due to the poor judgment and deceptions of our senior uniformed leaders. Some 3-4 years ago the senior uniformed leadership of the Navy, Air Force and Army watched the Corps mutilate itself in stunned silence. Today they are over it and the Corps is irrelevant while it has become the laughing stock of DoD for these other Flag Officers. One wonders if they will miss us? For now it is just back slapping and laughter.
Good post, I look forward to hearing good questions from the HASC and good answers from SecNav, CNO, and CMC. Bing West brings up good points that should be addressed ("The Marines contribute 3% to the total missile attack, at ten times the cost per unit of other services.").
On a related note, I was looking at some USMC releases about Kamandag 7 in the Phillipinnes from Nov 23 (exercise involving 3d MLR). According to the release, they "...conducted Stand-in-Force operations...". The article goes on to describe what was accomplished: "During the exercise, 3d Littoral Logistics Battalion worked alongside the Philippine Marine Corps to build a jungle obstacle course, executed humanitarian assistance and disaster relief training with the Provincial Disaster Risk Reduction Management Office, and conducted community relations engagements at local hospitals, schools, and businesses. 3d Littoral Combat Team conducted bilateral small-unit infantry training, including land navigation, patrolling, immediate action drills, and jungle survival classes. Finally, 3d Littoral Anti-Air Battalion conducted man-portable air-defense system classes and an air-defense practical application alongside the Coastal Defense Regiment.".
So, after reading that, I immediately thought, notwithstanding the gap in time, technology, and basing, what was the difference in capability sets between MAGTF 4-90 / SPMAGTF Phillipinnes and 3d MLR? MAGTF 4-90 accomplished those same tasks cited in the press piece. In addition '4-90 conducted several Humanitarian and Disaster Relief Operations over the life of the MAGTF, not to mention a NEO, etc. They even fought Earthquakes, Volcanos, and Typhoons. I'm tempted to ask again, "what exactly makes a stand-in force a stand-in force, other than PR pieces saying they are standing in.". Maybe the HASC should ask SecNav and the USMC to restate exactly what SIF means, especially in terms of capability, that makes it different from other deployed Marine forces.
P.S. looking for a bright note, I am confident that the MLR's are working hard to make lemons from a lemonade mission. I think there are a lot of worthwhile questions when it comes to the core concept of their employment and sustainment, but they seem to be doing well in conducting exercises and ops with a Marine approach of 'getting it done as well as possible'. Whatever comes next, my hat is off to them for working hard to make themselves more effective with the organization and equipment they have. Those will be important lego pieces when it comes to the reconstituting for the future fight. I just hope they don't get punched in the face before a few fixes are in place.
Bing West references 9 billion as the CMC budget request for the LSM. The amout quoted by CMC does not reveal that this budget amount is calculated on the premise these ships will be built to commercial standards vice USN safety standards to reduce costs. This construction pollicy is approved in spite of the fact the ships are intended for use inside the PLAN WEZ. This means they are potential death traps for
embarked Marines and Sailors. Futhermore, even though they are classed as amphibious, they are not capable for use with the ARG. This means they are not suitable for MAGTF operations. The fact this budget request continues is perplexing in spite of the fact there are existing alternatives to the LSM that are compatible with ARG and MAGTF operations.
BZ to contributors McCabe & West - Warnings America needs to pay heed. Comforting words of past capabilities may offer a conceptual blue print for where we need to go. If so, let’s step out in that direction. Keep the thoughts flowing. Semper Fi!
Philippines don’t want or need US Marine short range missiles. They have their own and are deploying them!
Indian BrahMos missiles delivered to the Philippines: The missile’s significance
BrahMos Aerospace Private Limited (BAPL), a joint venture company of the DRDO, had signed a contract with the Philippines on January 28, 2022 for supply of Shore Based Anti-Ship Missile System. Here's a look at how BrahMos was developed.
By: Explained Desk
New Delhi | Updated: April 19, 2024 22:58 IST
Newsguard
Follow Us
BrahMos supersonic cruise missile, with major indigenous systems, successfully test-fired from ITR, at Chandipur, in Odisha, in 2020.BrahMos supersonic cruise missile, with major indigenous systems, successfully test-fired from ITR, at Chandipur, in Odisha, in 2019. (ANI file)
India’s BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles were delivered to the Philippines on Friday (April 19), as part of a $375 million deal signed by the two countries in 2022, news agency ANI reported.
Prime Minister Narendra Modi also referenced it in an election rally in Madhya Pradesh, saying, “Bharat is acquiring the image of an arms exporter. This year alone, Bharat has sold arms worth Rs 21,000 crore to other countries. Right now when I am delivering my speech (at Damoh), BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles are being sent to the Philippines.”
BrahMos Aerospace Private Limited (BAPL), a joint venture company of India’s Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), had signed a contract with the Philippines on January 28, 2022, for supply of Shore Based Anti-Ship Missile System.
In terms of the Navy-Marine Corps team capabilities, it’s exhilarating to tell Congress “what we were.” It’s painful to tell Congress “what we are today,” which is probably why some don't.
The Marine Corps today is no longer a rapid global response force, capable of fighting and winning against any foe. If you disagree, consider the following:
* 31 amphibious ships with 40% operational readiness = 12 ships to support global requirements; simply not enough to keep two or more MEUs forward deployed continuously or support "surge" requirements.
* 7 MPS ships in two MPSRONs to support global requirements (down from 17 ships in three MPSRONs in 2018).
* A combined arms capability that is devoid of armor, bridging, and most assault breaching; and severely hampered by limited cannon artillery and a loss of resiliency in infantry, aviation, and CSS.
For those who drink the Kool-Aid, please tell me how the Marine Corps is going to rapidly deploy and sustain a robust, combined arms MEB or MEF given the above limitations. And don’t say by using MSC or commercial shipping because the Army will get priority since it has a resilient combined arms and maneuver capability. Also, don't believe for a second that the army is going to give us tanks, bridging, or cannon artillery.
And please don’t use the 14 NSM batteries and 3 TLAM batteries as justification for gutting the Marine Corps’ “toolbox” of capabilities needed to fight and win today. The missile batteries are still limping toward the starting line. When they finally take the field, they will be duplicative of other service capabilities and arguably ineffective given the short- and mid-range of the NSM and TLAM respectively and the subsonic speed of both.
These are the facts and according to John Adams: “Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
"As the official spokesman for FD / FD 2030, I can assure you that Pelican dropships will be used to globally deploy UNSC forces to wherever they are needed. Additionally, Pelican drop ships will also be used, as part of the EABO concept, to resupply USMC forces in the field inside the WEZ. These capabilities have been proven in a series of war-games initiated with 'Halo Combat Evolved' over 20 years ago and most recently vetted in the 'Halo Infinity' wargames."
Reportedly many active-duty Marines read Compass Points posts and check out comments on the site. Let's hope they not only read this comment but they also pass it to those in leadership positions and ask for answers to Jerry McAbee's questions. Are these words from senior Marine Corps officers merely unsupported assertions or are they bold-faced lies. The more often I see them in print the more I believe it is the latter. Sad, indeed!
Sometimes individuals and institutions are delusional. Both the CMC’s comments and those of Congress are either ignorance or deliberate lies. Neither is acceptable when discussing national defense or the lives of Marines. Cold hard facts and precise analysis combined with sterling honesty must be the foundation. Clearly it is not. Congress must stop pretending and the Corps must present the facts. We have become irrelevant due to the poor judgment and deceptions of our senior uniformed leaders. Some 3-4 years ago the senior uniformed leadership of the Navy, Air Force and Army watched the Corps mutilate itself in stunned silence. Today they are over it and the Corps is irrelevant while it has become the laughing stock of DoD for these other Flag Officers. One wonders if they will miss us? For now it is just back slapping and laughter.
Good post, I look forward to hearing good questions from the HASC and good answers from SecNav, CNO, and CMC. Bing West brings up good points that should be addressed ("The Marines contribute 3% to the total missile attack, at ten times the cost per unit of other services.").
On a related note, I was looking at some USMC releases about Kamandag 7 in the Phillipinnes from Nov 23 (exercise involving 3d MLR). According to the release, they "...conducted Stand-in-Force operations...". The article goes on to describe what was accomplished: "During the exercise, 3d Littoral Logistics Battalion worked alongside the Philippine Marine Corps to build a jungle obstacle course, executed humanitarian assistance and disaster relief training with the Provincial Disaster Risk Reduction Management Office, and conducted community relations engagements at local hospitals, schools, and businesses. 3d Littoral Combat Team conducted bilateral small-unit infantry training, including land navigation, patrolling, immediate action drills, and jungle survival classes. Finally, 3d Littoral Anti-Air Battalion conducted man-portable air-defense system classes and an air-defense practical application alongside the Coastal Defense Regiment.".
(source - https://www.3rdmlr.marines.mil/Media-Room/Stories/Article/Article/3615705/3d-marine-littoral-regiment-concludes-kamandag-7/)
So, after reading that, I immediately thought, notwithstanding the gap in time, technology, and basing, what was the difference in capability sets between MAGTF 4-90 / SPMAGTF Phillipinnes and 3d MLR? MAGTF 4-90 accomplished those same tasks cited in the press piece. In addition '4-90 conducted several Humanitarian and Disaster Relief Operations over the life of the MAGTF, not to mention a NEO, etc. They even fought Earthquakes, Volcanos, and Typhoons. I'm tempted to ask again, "what exactly makes a stand-in force a stand-in force, other than PR pieces saying they are standing in.". Maybe the HASC should ask SecNav and the USMC to restate exactly what SIF means, especially in terms of capability, that makes it different from other deployed Marine forces.
P.S. looking for a bright note, I am confident that the MLR's are working hard to make lemons from a lemonade mission. I think there are a lot of worthwhile questions when it comes to the core concept of their employment and sustainment, but they seem to be doing well in conducting exercises and ops with a Marine approach of 'getting it done as well as possible'. Whatever comes next, my hat is off to them for working hard to make themselves more effective with the organization and equipment they have. Those will be important lego pieces when it comes to the reconstituting for the future fight. I just hope they don't get punched in the face before a few fixes are in place.
Bing West references 9 billion as the CMC budget request for the LSM. The amout quoted by CMC does not reveal that this budget amount is calculated on the premise these ships will be built to commercial standards vice USN safety standards to reduce costs. This construction pollicy is approved in spite of the fact the ships are intended for use inside the PLAN WEZ. This means they are potential death traps for
embarked Marines and Sailors. Futhermore, even though they are classed as amphibious, they are not capable for use with the ARG. This means they are not suitable for MAGTF operations. The fact this budget request continues is perplexing in spite of the fact there are existing alternatives to the LSM that are compatible with ARG and MAGTF operations.
BZ to contributors McCabe & West - Warnings America needs to pay heed. Comforting words of past capabilities may offer a conceptual blue print for where we need to go. If so, let’s step out in that direction. Keep the thoughts flowing. Semper Fi!
Philippines don’t want or need US Marine short range missiles. They have their own and are deploying them!
Indian BrahMos missiles delivered to the Philippines: The missile’s significance
BrahMos Aerospace Private Limited (BAPL), a joint venture company of the DRDO, had signed a contract with the Philippines on January 28, 2022 for supply of Shore Based Anti-Ship Missile System. Here's a look at how BrahMos was developed.
By: Explained Desk
New Delhi | Updated: April 19, 2024 22:58 IST
Newsguard
Follow Us
BrahMos supersonic cruise missile, with major indigenous systems, successfully test-fired from ITR, at Chandipur, in Odisha, in 2020.BrahMos supersonic cruise missile, with major indigenous systems, successfully test-fired from ITR, at Chandipur, in Odisha, in 2019. (ANI file)
India’s BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles were delivered to the Philippines on Friday (April 19), as part of a $375 million deal signed by the two countries in 2022, news agency ANI reported.
Prime Minister Narendra Modi also referenced it in an election rally in Madhya Pradesh, saying, “Bharat is acquiring the image of an arms exporter. This year alone, Bharat has sold arms worth Rs 21,000 crore to other countries. Right now when I am delivering my speech (at Damoh), BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles are being sent to the Philippines.”
BrahMos Aerospace Private Limited (BAPL), a joint venture company of India’s Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), had signed a contract with the Philippines on January 28, 2022, for supply of Shore Based Anti-Ship Missile System.