I think we're buying the cart before we have the horse. Amphibious assaults are out of the question until there is a way to counter Chinese missiles. If a DDG can't operate in an area then non warships are just targets. China had done the math. They know how many VLS a DDG has. Politicians and the Navy at this critical time have decided to decommission the cruisers with 144 VLS each. All China needs is enough missiles to force the Navy to use all it's missiles in defense plus a few more to overwhelm the CIWS. And then we have a Navy with only submarines that can go in a contested area. Current Navy aircraft don't have the range to attack and allow the carrier to remain outside missile range. A WWII Japanese zero has better range. That means no support for any land force no matter how well equipped or trained. Unless the military planners are looking to reenact the Macon Island raid, I don't think we have a plan that can work with the ships we have. And a 14 knot LSM? That speed is in calm water. The slower you travel in a combat zone, the longer you are a target.
If war comes with China, I don't think they will give us a starting date. It may be a long war. I think the first part of the war will be an Air Force and submarine war long before we can hope to capture and control territory near China. With the LSM we will just be killing hard to come by Marines.
Any war with China will be quick and bloody. The scenario that everyone focuses on is Taiwan. That main island is less than 80 miles from their coast. There are literally islands claimed by Taiwan that are 10 miles off their coast (f not closer). It is over 2000 from ours.
I think I have posted this before here. But I will post it again. Probably the best illustration of 6 scenarios of China and Taiwan.
LSMs and narco submarines, when is this theorectical pipe-dream going to end?? It's been over four years and HQMC still doesn't have a hull in the water or real answer. Like CP argues, if a Navy destroyer can't get into the WEZ, then how is a lightly armed landing craft going to survive? If they want littoral insertion, go with the Swedish CB90. If they want to sink Chinese ships, buy a couple of squadrons of amphibious aircraft. They were extremely beneficial in WWII. Using the ocean as a maneuver area, I'm sure they can be armed with an anti-ship missile. They can also be used for inserting small MARSOC teams. The SIF is nothing short of a suicide mission!
CP - Thank you for putting this particular piece, today, into print and into our discussion. I think today’s reading is an excellent & timely piece for the President, MCU, to pick it up, and assign its analysis & recommended solutions to the various student bodies of our “School House” at Quantico, and provide DirLauth to any appropriate service organization (or, civilian institutions) which may have a role to play in this matter. Today’s piece, in my opinion, is ripe for INFORMED ACTION - NOW. Let this be a first step. Semper Fidelis!
It would be an incredible assignment for the young company and field grade officers to look into. But MCU will not assign it as it does not fit the narrative laid out by the "stars".
I was told that once I graduated boot camp that I was a part of the Marine Corps until I died, that it was my Corps. Now I am a nobody retired embarkation officer but still believe that the Corps belongs in small part to me. There are decades/centuries of experience in this forum.....why in all that is holy would the current holders of the Corps ignore that? To tell them that they "just don't understand"?
More FD2030 insanity and the consequences of being a limited-response force against the CHICOMs and irrelevant to the other 95% of the real-world threats!
I think we're buying the cart before we have the horse. Amphibious assaults are out of the question until there is a way to counter Chinese missiles. If a DDG can't operate in an area then non warships are just targets. China had done the math. They know how many VLS a DDG has. Politicians and the Navy at this critical time have decided to decommission the cruisers with 144 VLS each. All China needs is enough missiles to force the Navy to use all it's missiles in defense plus a few more to overwhelm the CIWS. And then we have a Navy with only submarines that can go in a contested area. Current Navy aircraft don't have the range to attack and allow the carrier to remain outside missile range. A WWII Japanese zero has better range. That means no support for any land force no matter how well equipped or trained. Unless the military planners are looking to reenact the Macon Island raid, I don't think we have a plan that can work with the ships we have. And a 14 knot LSM? That speed is in calm water. The slower you travel in a combat zone, the longer you are a target.
If war comes with China, I don't think they will give us a starting date. It may be a long war. I think the first part of the war will be an Air Force and submarine war long before we can hope to capture and control territory near China. With the LSM we will just be killing hard to come by Marines.
Any war with China will be quick and bloody. The scenario that everyone focuses on is Taiwan. That main island is less than 80 miles from their coast. There are literally islands claimed by Taiwan that are 10 miles off their coast (f not closer). It is over 2000 from ours.
I think I have posted this before here. But I will post it again. Probably the best illustration of 6 scenarios of China and Taiwan.
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/taiwan-china-wargames/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=EBB%2011.08.2021&utm_term=Editorial%20-%20Early%20Bird%20Brief
LSMs and narco submarines, when is this theorectical pipe-dream going to end?? It's been over four years and HQMC still doesn't have a hull in the water or real answer. Like CP argues, if a Navy destroyer can't get into the WEZ, then how is a lightly armed landing craft going to survive? If they want littoral insertion, go with the Swedish CB90. If they want to sink Chinese ships, buy a couple of squadrons of amphibious aircraft. They were extremely beneficial in WWII. Using the ocean as a maneuver area, I'm sure they can be armed with an anti-ship missile. They can also be used for inserting small MARSOC teams. The SIF is nothing short of a suicide mission!
We should start practicing how to camouflage them to look like a Chinese junk.
CP - Thank you for putting this particular piece, today, into print and into our discussion. I think today’s reading is an excellent & timely piece for the President, MCU, to pick it up, and assign its analysis & recommended solutions to the various student bodies of our “School House” at Quantico, and provide DirLauth to any appropriate service organization (or, civilian institutions) which may have a role to play in this matter. Today’s piece, in my opinion, is ripe for INFORMED ACTION - NOW. Let this be a first step. Semper Fidelis!
It would be an incredible assignment for the young company and field grade officers to look into. But MCU will not assign it as it does not fit the narrative laid out by the "stars".
I was told that once I graduated boot camp that I was a part of the Marine Corps until I died, that it was my Corps. Now I am a nobody retired embarkation officer but still believe that the Corps belongs in small part to me. There are decades/centuries of experience in this forum.....why in all that is holy would the current holders of the Corps ignore that? To tell them that they "just don't understand"?
More FD2030 insanity and the consequences of being a limited-response force against the CHICOMs and irrelevant to the other 95% of the real-world threats!