Women should not be exposed to combat. Not that some couldn't handle it, but because as a civilized society we men, protectors are responsible; no, the solemn duty to protect them.
Webb is right on. Vietnam was unlike any war we have ever experienced…This sentiment was expressed by Marine friends who had served in WWII and Korea. I’m afraid that the experiences of the last 25 years in the Middle East have given those serving today a warped idea of what and who it takes to prevail in a war where the niceties provided by military contractors will not be available. Semper Fi
That we are having the conversation at all is a sign of the depth of the depravity that is washing loosely around various circles of political influence. The notion that women be allowed into the combat arms is abhorrent. From a practical factual basis and as example, TBS class Fox Company 6/78 was all male, we were sandwiched between Echo and Golf which had WM’s in coed configuration. People can go look it up but by every metric the all male class did better. As General Barrow explained to the SASC there is a difference between being in a forward postion and being shot at and so forth and actively taking up the duties requisite with rifle company offensive and defensive operations. It has been muddied, as forward base operations bring women forward and are exposed to the vicissitudes of combat. So if we as a nation wish women in the combat arms let’s take it to a vote. Women shall register for the selective service system, can be drafted and placed into the combat arms. The last time this really came up, was when the Equal Rights Amendment was on the table. When Americans writ large learned that women would be subject to the draft the air came out of the feminist balloon fast. So let’s put it to a vote. In the meantime let’s add this discussion to the current theme of the times which is the wholesale destruction of the Marine Corps. Perhaps we can solve the FD/2030 T/O problem with SIF and MLR and make them all women units forward deployed. Washington gets its cake and eat too. Oddly, we hear as General Barrow opined the fact that policy is one thing and law another. It’s time for the congress to stand up on its hind legs and show its colors. Good luck with that by the way. In the meantime the services will be the objective lesson of what happens when policy over rides practicality and reality. Americans are going to wake up one day and find out just how hollowed out the vaunted US Military has become, need an example? Aboard a rusted US surface combat vessel someone screwed up so badly that it shot down an F-18 super Hornet returning from a combat action patrol yesterday. Everyone starting with the CNO needs to fired and the whole system turned upside down. But no doubt this incident will be swept under the rug and some Ensign and a Petty Officer will swing from the yard arm for the near fatal and rather catastrophic mistake. Details matter. Women in the combat arms MOS’s are a detail. It will matter. But then again if no one volunteers anymore then the issue may solve itself and a unisex draft will solve all the problems.
Webb's article didn't age well. In the long war and in contingency operations today, we have seen countless examples of women fighting - and leading - in the defense of our nation. To dismiss the contributions of these warriors, and to write off a potential talent pool comprising half our population, would be foolish at best. One need look no further than the ongoing war in Ukraine to see daily examples of women fighting to great effect in high-intensity conflict. If Mr. Webb's views of today are consistent with those he held over 40 years ago, I would ask him why exactly he believes American women to be so much less capable than their Ukrainian counterparts.
America has not fought the kind of war that truly tests our physical and mental faculties since Vietnam. Iraq and Afghanistan had some battles which did, but both combined did not compare to combat in Vietnam, or Korea and WWII. That we as a nation would even think to support our women being exposed to combat when it is unnecessary is a sign of the weakness of character of American men today. Ukrainian women are being slaughtered in place of men. That is not to be celebrated; it is cowardly and shameful. We are accepting women in the infantry freely today because FD 2030 removes Marines from traditional combat, at least initially. Equating the stand-off and push-button sanitary combat envisioned in FD 2030 to real combat is a joke. Once all the missiles and rockets are depleted and the real combat begins, those who encouraged this bs should be held accountable.
The late Donald Rumsfeld, loved by some hated by many, left us this quote. “You go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want or wish to have at a latter time.” December 22, 2024 Our President Elect Donald J Trump just laid down a marker regarding the Panama Canal! I AM CERTAIN COMPASS POINTS READERS DID NOT MISS IT! Where were the Marines in DECEMBER 1989 when Operation Just Cause was launched? I MEF was a Phoenix struggling to reform from ashes. Today Berger and Smith have plucked it’s feathers and replaced this Great Warbird w a toothless SIF. Soon the warning order will be issued to combat units task w retaking Our Canal Zone. Will the Eagle, Globe and Anchor be present, will we be “First to Fight”!
Re, What do I think about Women in Combat ie Combat Arms, I believe that LtGen George Smith USMC Retired when he was a Brigadier at MCCDC and was handed the “hot potato” re Women in USMC Infantry….gave us the answer “Women and combat: Cracking the last all-male bastion in U.S. military?
60-minutes
March 13, 2015 / 1:13 PM EDT / CBS News
The Marine Corps is under orders to open up its ground combat units - one of the last all-male bastions in the military -- to women, but it has been unable to find any female capable of making it through its three-month infantry officer course. 60 Minutes gets an inside look at the brutal training for a story that examines how the Marines are dealing”, answered the questions with irrefutable facts and that the answer was NO! His exhaustive analysis was ignored by the “perfumed princes and princesses” superior to him who “bent the knee” to their Political Masters. Amazingly then Brigadier Smith was selected for promotion to Major General which should have been a no brainer, but we are dealing w an institution ie the USMC which was in 2015 vastly different from the USMC of 1997 when President Clinton was informed that all the Generals in the USMC would resign if COED Boot Camp was forced down Our Throats. Fortunately we had 45 who appointed “Mad Dog” to be SecDef, who then selected Major General Smith to be assigned as a LtGen to his office. Amazingly LtGen George W Smith then became CG I MEF….he once again served w integrity and guts calling out FD as a Fucking Disaster. What did SecDef Mattis do regarding Women in Combat? This is why I recommended that the incoming Trumps’s Sec Def fire the current CMC Smith for Cause and replace him with George W Smith to save the USMC. Further I believe Transexuals ie individual who suffer from Gender Dysphoria a Mental Disorder are unfit to serve in any capacity. So back to reality, 2,000 American Service Members are in Syria a Combat Zone this very moment. I have no doubt that several thousand US “advisors” are in the Ukraine fighting Russians. Recently a female USAF Flight Officer was awarded a Silver Star for shooting down drones and ballistic missiles flying toward Israel. In the last 24 hours a USN F/A 18 w a 2 person crew was shot down by the USS Gettysburg. In the near future Armies of Robots, ExoSkeleton Clad Male and Female Soldiers will be in combat. Meanwhile here in the Homeland we do not have “air or space superiority” over our CONUS bases. Welcome to 2025 we won’t see 1979 again.
Sam - Good question, and along thematic lines I’ve raised in CP. Without flourish or fanfare, I simply don’t know the answer to your good question … that is a chilling revelation on my part … not to have confidence in our ability to get a tough job done.
To be somewhat repetitive, Marines of both sexes have served honorably since the late 1970’s in many MOS’s and in other past lady Marine assignments . The unassisted female physiology is not currently suited for ground combat units, w few exceptions. In the “near future “ we may see exoskeletons fitted to both sexes to compensate and improve humans physical capabilities for both sexes for employment in ground combat. Additionally, most combat units will be augmented w robots ,further ground elements consisting completely of AI Robots similar to the “loyal wingman” concept will be employed. Female Marine and other service female aviators have been flying combat sorties for decades. Ukrainian forces, on a small scale have attempted offensive robotics elements in coordination w FPV drones to attack Russian forces w limited success. Why send a human where you can send a machine? Enjoy President’s Day. PS….they need to hurry up w the exoskeletons I may need one soon. Definitely not ready for a Neuralink Implant.
Women should not be exposed to combat. Not that some couldn't handle it, but because as a civilized society we men, protectors are responsible; no, the solemn duty to protect them.
As a rule, amen.
See UTube’s presentation of Gen. Barrow testifying before the SASC on this very issue in 1991. SASC Chair was Senator John Glenn
Webb is right on. Vietnam was unlike any war we have ever experienced…This sentiment was expressed by Marine friends who had served in WWII and Korea. I’m afraid that the experiences of the last 25 years in the Middle East have given those serving today a warped idea of what and who it takes to prevail in a war where the niceties provided by military contractors will not be available. Semper Fi
That we are having the conversation at all is a sign of the depth of the depravity that is washing loosely around various circles of political influence. The notion that women be allowed into the combat arms is abhorrent. From a practical factual basis and as example, TBS class Fox Company 6/78 was all male, we were sandwiched between Echo and Golf which had WM’s in coed configuration. People can go look it up but by every metric the all male class did better. As General Barrow explained to the SASC there is a difference between being in a forward postion and being shot at and so forth and actively taking up the duties requisite with rifle company offensive and defensive operations. It has been muddied, as forward base operations bring women forward and are exposed to the vicissitudes of combat. So if we as a nation wish women in the combat arms let’s take it to a vote. Women shall register for the selective service system, can be drafted and placed into the combat arms. The last time this really came up, was when the Equal Rights Amendment was on the table. When Americans writ large learned that women would be subject to the draft the air came out of the feminist balloon fast. So let’s put it to a vote. In the meantime let’s add this discussion to the current theme of the times which is the wholesale destruction of the Marine Corps. Perhaps we can solve the FD/2030 T/O problem with SIF and MLR and make them all women units forward deployed. Washington gets its cake and eat too. Oddly, we hear as General Barrow opined the fact that policy is one thing and law another. It’s time for the congress to stand up on its hind legs and show its colors. Good luck with that by the way. In the meantime the services will be the objective lesson of what happens when policy over rides practicality and reality. Americans are going to wake up one day and find out just how hollowed out the vaunted US Military has become, need an example? Aboard a rusted US surface combat vessel someone screwed up so badly that it shot down an F-18 super Hornet returning from a combat action patrol yesterday. Everyone starting with the CNO needs to fired and the whole system turned upside down. But no doubt this incident will be swept under the rug and some Ensign and a Petty Officer will swing from the yard arm for the near fatal and rather catastrophic mistake. Details matter. Women in the combat arms MOS’s are a detail. It will matter. But then again if no one volunteers anymore then the issue may solve itself and a unisex draft will solve all the problems.
Webb's article didn't age well. In the long war and in contingency operations today, we have seen countless examples of women fighting - and leading - in the defense of our nation. To dismiss the contributions of these warriors, and to write off a potential talent pool comprising half our population, would be foolish at best. One need look no further than the ongoing war in Ukraine to see daily examples of women fighting to great effect in high-intensity conflict. If Mr. Webb's views of today are consistent with those he held over 40 years ago, I would ask him why exactly he believes American women to be so much less capable than their Ukrainian counterparts.
America has not fought the kind of war that truly tests our physical and mental faculties since Vietnam. Iraq and Afghanistan had some battles which did, but both combined did not compare to combat in Vietnam, or Korea and WWII. That we as a nation would even think to support our women being exposed to combat when it is unnecessary is a sign of the weakness of character of American men today. Ukrainian women are being slaughtered in place of men. That is not to be celebrated; it is cowardly and shameful. We are accepting women in the infantry freely today because FD 2030 removes Marines from traditional combat, at least initially. Equating the stand-off and push-button sanitary combat envisioned in FD 2030 to real combat is a joke. Once all the missiles and rockets are depleted and the real combat begins, those who encouraged this bs should be held accountable.
The late Donald Rumsfeld, loved by some hated by many, left us this quote. “You go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want or wish to have at a latter time.” December 22, 2024 Our President Elect Donald J Trump just laid down a marker regarding the Panama Canal! I AM CERTAIN COMPASS POINTS READERS DID NOT MISS IT! Where were the Marines in DECEMBER 1989 when Operation Just Cause was launched? I MEF was a Phoenix struggling to reform from ashes. Today Berger and Smith have plucked it’s feathers and replaced this Great Warbird w a toothless SIF. Soon the warning order will be issued to combat units task w retaking Our Canal Zone. Will the Eagle, Globe and Anchor be present, will we be “First to Fight”!
Re, What do I think about Women in Combat ie Combat Arms, I believe that LtGen George Smith USMC Retired when he was a Brigadier at MCCDC and was handed the “hot potato” re Women in USMC Infantry….gave us the answer “Women and combat: Cracking the last all-male bastion in U.S. military?
60-minutes
March 13, 2015 / 1:13 PM EDT / CBS News
The Marine Corps is under orders to open up its ground combat units - one of the last all-male bastions in the military -- to women, but it has been unable to find any female capable of making it through its three-month infantry officer course. 60 Minutes gets an inside look at the brutal training for a story that examines how the Marines are dealing”, answered the questions with irrefutable facts and that the answer was NO! His exhaustive analysis was ignored by the “perfumed princes and princesses” superior to him who “bent the knee” to their Political Masters. Amazingly then Brigadier Smith was selected for promotion to Major General which should have been a no brainer, but we are dealing w an institution ie the USMC which was in 2015 vastly different from the USMC of 1997 when President Clinton was informed that all the Generals in the USMC would resign if COED Boot Camp was forced down Our Throats. Fortunately we had 45 who appointed “Mad Dog” to be SecDef, who then selected Major General Smith to be assigned as a LtGen to his office. Amazingly LtGen George W Smith then became CG I MEF….he once again served w integrity and guts calling out FD as a Fucking Disaster. What did SecDef Mattis do regarding Women in Combat? This is why I recommended that the incoming Trumps’s Sec Def fire the current CMC Smith for Cause and replace him with George W Smith to save the USMC. Further I believe Transexuals ie individual who suffer from Gender Dysphoria a Mental Disorder are unfit to serve in any capacity. So back to reality, 2,000 American Service Members are in Syria a Combat Zone this very moment. I have no doubt that several thousand US “advisors” are in the Ukraine fighting Russians. Recently a female USAF Flight Officer was awarded a Silver Star for shooting down drones and ballistic missiles flying toward Israel. In the last 24 hours a USN F/A 18 w a 2 person crew was shot down by the USS Gettysburg. In the near future Armies of Robots, ExoSkeleton Clad Male and Female Soldiers will be in combat. Meanwhile here in the Homeland we do not have “air or space superiority” over our CONUS bases. Welcome to 2025 we won’t see 1979 again.
Sam - Good question, and along thematic lines I’ve raised in CP. Without flourish or fanfare, I simply don’t know the answer to your good question … that is a chilling revelation on my part … not to have confidence in our ability to get a tough job done.
Geez, Sam, what do you think about women in combat?
To be somewhat repetitive, Marines of both sexes have served honorably since the late 1970’s in many MOS’s and in other past lady Marine assignments . The unassisted female physiology is not currently suited for ground combat units, w few exceptions. In the “near future “ we may see exoskeletons fitted to both sexes to compensate and improve humans physical capabilities for both sexes for employment in ground combat. Additionally, most combat units will be augmented w robots ,further ground elements consisting completely of AI Robots similar to the “loyal wingman” concept will be employed. Female Marine and other service female aviators have been flying combat sorties for decades. Ukrainian forces, on a small scale have attempted offensive robotics elements in coordination w FPV drones to attack Russian forces w limited success. Why send a human where you can send a machine? Enjoy President’s Day. PS….they need to hurry up w the exoskeletons I may need one soon. Definitely not ready for a Neuralink Implant.