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Douglas C Rapé's avatar

Permit me to add some comments about John Sayen. I found out that John Sayen passed away in 2018. I was interested in locating him to get his thoughts on FD-2030 and only stumbled on the fact he had died.

In October 1974 I reported to TBS Class 3-75 at Quantico. One of my classmates was John Sayen. John was probably 6”4, lanky, cerebral and introverted. His room was a few doors down. He didn’t look like he shaved yet. I later learned that he was younger than the class, as was I and Tom Peeler. We were 21 years old. We had one other guy who was a year younger too but his name has faded from my memory over the years. John was not the typical fire breathing Lieutenant. He was fit but it took endless hard work. He was not athletic. His father was a prominent Doctor in Philadelphia. John wanted to be an infantry officer. I had no idea there was anything but, unless you were an aviator. John and I had regular after hours conversations. Over the course of these it became clear that he was a student of history and had a deep insight on the Marines in the Pacific and war on the Eastern Front. Our conversations on weaponry, tactics, doctrine and training would last late into the night. He was clearly brilliant. I had met few people well versed in the German Soviet war 1941 to 1945. We both believed it might be the most dangerous conflict the US would ever fight if it came to that. John and I discussed everything from small arms to grand strategy in a peer confrontation. We did not neglect discussing insurgencies, partisans and guerrilla warfare, weapons, combat load, unit organization etc.

John did not join us in our liberty runs to Washington DC or partying. It held no interest for him. He had no interest in sports cars, sports, hunting or fishing. Nor did he display the intensity many of us had from an excess of testosterone and the limited judgment that put a cocky chip on our shoulders. While we were reading John Fairbain and practicing knife fighting he was doing a deep analysis of Bn operations in Korea. There were times when I came in from a night on the town and John would knock on the door: “ Doug, on day three in the Battle of Kursk why do you think that LAH did not break through to the south….” and drop a map on the floor. We would pour over the map asking questions about number of tanks available, ammunition stocks, fuel availability, air support etc. Around this time the secrets of the Enigma Codes were being revealed and John was intrigued. So was I. We even discussed one night if the USMC might let us go interview Generals in England, the US and Germany.

When the MOS selections were revealed John was designated Artillery. I was secretly relieved. That was the right MOS for John and I secretly applauded our SPC for his analysis of the skills and potential of his Lieutenants. John was not the charismatic leader type. Not a pugilist.

Saigon fell the day before my TBS class graduated and I lost track of John. He did not come to the 2nd Mar Div after Artillery School. I had hoped he would.

Careers, assignments, priorities and distance crippled communications before email. I last spoke with John in 1992 as we discussed his career options when I was at HQMC. I encouraged him to leverage his grasp of history, brilliant mind, focused analysis and devotion to work in the Marine Corps Schools and professional development. It was the last time we spoke in person. I vaguely remember that we emailed once or twice in the 1995-98 time frame. I remember a congratulatory email in 1998 when I took command of 25th Marines. That was 25 years ago.

John’s skills, devotion and intellect might have been better appreciated in the British or Prussian military where they tended to be more tolerant of the brilliant even eccentric who did not fit the mold. I believe conditions in that arena have been made worse by the Officer Fitness Report changes implemented in the early 1990’s. The focus shifted from character, potential,unique skills and strengths to metrics and laundry lists of achievements of questionable value.

John Sayen was a great Marine that our Corps, for many reasons, did not properly leverage during his active duty service. He is not alone. I often reflect on the talent we overlooked or discarded in favor of self promoters and grand standers.

I do not believe John ever married. If he did not marry I am certain he had no children. He is buried with his mother and father in Philadelphia.

I feel some guilt for not staying in touch. 2001-2018 was a busy time for me. It is no excuse. John was like many great Marines. He devoted his life to our Corps and nation for few rewards. I know he never asked for much and got even less other than the knowledge that he made innumerable individuals better and our Corps better. I hope he knew that in the end.

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Paul Van Riper's avatar

I was a young major when first I met the late General Al Gray. Beginning in that initial encounter and for many years afterwards I learned much from this giant of our Corps.

Today’s post questioning whether those responsible for the recent changes to the Marine infantry battalion ever consulted John Sayen’s seminal work on American Infantry before they set about making those changes reminds me of an important lesson I learned from General Gray. That is, the need to look to history before launching off on a project.

Though he did not use the term, what General Gray was telling me was I needed to conduct a literature search prior to putting forth any recommendation. As the post says, “The story before the story” I wanted to tell. That advice served me well while on active-duty and in many endeavors since I retired.

So, I wonder, did the Marines who recommended the recent changes to the Marine infantry battalion consult any of these important books on the role of the infantry?

S.L.A. Marshall, Men Against Fire: The Problem of Battle Command in Future War

B.A. Friedman, On Tactics: A Theory of Victory in Battle

John A. English, On Infantry (New York: Praeger

John A. English and Bruce I. Gudmunsson, On Infantry: Revised Edition

Paddy Griffith, Forward Into Battle: Fighting Tactics from Waterloo to the Near Future

Michael D. Doubler, Closing With the Enemy: How GIs Fought the War in Europe, 1944-1945

Charles B. MacDonald, Company Commander: The Classic Account of Infantry Combat in World War II

Erwin Rommel, Attacks

The Infantry Journal, Infantry in Battle

Martin van Creveld, Fighting Power: German and U.S. Army Performance, 1939-1945 (

Richard Holmes, Acts of War: The Behavior of Men in Battle

Peter S. Kindsvatter, American Soldiers: Ground Combat in the World Wars, Korea, and Vietnam

Furthermore, did they look to the important work done by Secretary of Defense, General Jim Mattis’ lethality task force? See: https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/1639138/task-force-looks-at-making-infantry-squads-more-lethal/.

Finally, did they happen to come across a Center for Naval Analyses study I assisted with titled, Development of the Squad: Historical Analysis? See: https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/AD1014512.pdf

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