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Douglas C Rapé's avatar

Gary Anderson paints one of a number of terrible outcomes that are totally predictable. The length of the South China Sea is around 3000 miles depending on how you measure it. The number of Islands is surely in the thousands. How many 100 mile subsonic missiles would you need to bottle up the Chinese Fleet over that distance. What is to even suggest they would want to come out from under their own missile and air craft umbrella anyway? I’d suggest some computer simulations on a Chinese fleet selective breakout and how many islands would need Marine Units to spot, target and shoot and resupply? It does not take a Naval Strategist to see how the Chinese would destroy those units and leave the rest to wither on the vine. Have the Senior leaders forgotten the Pacific Island hopping Campaigns? I would suggest that the Chinese would simply bypass the few Marine Missile units as they run their version of the “Scharnhorst Channel Dash” and destroy others at will.

A 9th grade class with a large map, the Chinese ships and the Marine missile units could play a game by placing the pieces on the map. The exercise would be worth it just to grasp the scale of what we are talking about. Take it from there.

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jakc's avatar

Years ago in CENTCOM AOR 50 k ranged Spike Missiles were demonstrated off of AH 64s as they were this week in Poland. Thoughts were to use possibly against China's grey water navy swarms from anything holding a HELIO and possibly temp pass thru FARPs giving hundreds of miles of coverage from just a few small SIF units.

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Andy's avatar

Even with only the NSMs these units could keep the Chinese contained inside the first island chain and avoid a full blockade of the east coast of Taiwan if placed on the outlying Philippine and Japanese islands. Ships are needed to move the entire unit, but dispersal or even evacuation could potentially be done by tactical airlift. Keep in mind the MLR is not the entirety of force design. Soon we will have PRSM Blk II / LBASM coming from the HIMARS launchers. We might potentially see them mounted on ROGUE-Fires too, replacing the cancelled Long Range Fires batteries at the division level. We also have the Maritime Recon Companies being constituted at the division level. No one compares end state to end state. This article in no way describes what the past Marine force structure would be doing while the described war is taking place.

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jakc's avatar

Have been demonstrated off of flat racks in and out of 20 foot containers and on trailers.., going back to the early '90s..,

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Bud Meador's avatar

Early morning thought & question over a cuppa: To what extent may ideations of FD2030 - & their implementation - be a result of influence on the Corps’ leadership by industry plots/plans/& intended business end states? I’m not suggesting unethical/criminal behavior. But, instead, just trying to figure out what the source of our calamity may be given the secret modality of process that got us here. Offered as food for thought.

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Cpl Dan USMC (Ret)'s avatar

Look no further than the 2018 NDS, it's all based on this, Sir, every last bit, several Commandants referred to it as their planning guidance, hence our calamity, Respectfully Sir,

Semper Fi

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Cpl Dan USMC (Ret)'s avatar

General Dynamics

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Andy's avatar

What exact products would benefit General Dynamics in Force Design?

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User's avatar
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Sep 16
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Andy's avatar

They build the pods and rocket motors for the GMLRS. Lockheed is prime, vehicle is Oshkosh, NG builds the motor for PRSM. Not sure how any of that would drive force design where the first missile integrated is NSM, then Iron Dome by RTX. All that CUAS gear from Israel is being brought in via RTX. NG builds the gun for it, Kongsberg the RWS. JLTV again, Oshkosh. MQ-9 is General Atomics. I am guessing you were a tube artillery type? Only perspective where I could see anyone thinking GD is the sneaky contractor pushing buttons here. They don't even build Amphibs or prepositioning ships.

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jakc's avatar

two types of common missile trucks or cmmt? Basis for cheap easy manufacturing and size configurations for other manufacturers to go to town developing their payloads to fit the base launch system. Think space x vice EVERYBDY ELSE. Better, faster, cheaper, and now. Better solution next week and even better one the week after. To include possible three d printers forward deployed. So as to have latest and greatest today. Think forward temporary airfield able to switch payloads on the ramp on pallet of common missiles being delivered on a C130s supply mission enroute. Proof of principle already executed.

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Cpl Dan USMC (Ret)'s avatar

HQCO 7TH MARINES TOW PLATOON

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Cpl Dan USMC (Ret)'s avatar

General Dynamics’ Role in HIMARS Production

General Dynamics, primarily through its Ordnance and Tactical Systems (GD-OTS) division, is deeply involved in HIMARS as a strategic partner to Lockheed Martin, the primary manufacturer. Their collaboration centers on producing critical components, especially solid rocket motors, to bolster the U.S. defense supply chain amid global demand.

Solid Rocket Motor Manufacturing: GD-OTS has partnered with Lockheed Martin to manufacture solid rocket motors for the Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS), a key HIMARS munition. This deal, announced in August 2024, aims to address a shortage of rocket motors exposed by the Ukraine conflict. Production began in 2025 at GD-OTS’s Camden, Arkansas facility, marking their entry into this market. The first firing test of a 4.75-inch motor in August 2025 met performance targets within 1%, enhancing HIMARS’ long-range precision fires.

Historical Contribution: Earlier, in 2017, GD-OTS secured contracts to establish an automated production line for Launcher Pod Containers (LPCs) used in HIMARS and the M270 MLRS, validating their role in munitions logistics. This built on their expertise in artillery and munitions, supporting Lockheed’s assembly in Camden.

Supply Chain Resilience: The 2024 partnership responds to Pentagon pressure to diversify suppliers beyond traditional players like Northrop Grumman and L3Harris Aerojet Rocketdyne. GD-OTS’s role ensures a “robust and diverse” chain, critical for replenishing U.S. and allied stocks depleted by conflicts in Eastern Europe and the Middle East.

Production Scale: Lockheed doubled HIMARS output to 96 units/year (April 2025), and GD-OTS’s motor production supports this ramp-up, targeting 14,000 GMLRS rounds annually by the late 2020s (U.S. Army goal of 19,000). This isn’t about building launchers but powering the rockets that make HIMARS a battlefield game-changer.

The establishment might tout this as a seamless team effort, but the reality is GD-OTS stepped in to plug a gap—Lockheed’s lead was stretched thin, and the Ukraine demand (36 units as of 2025) forced a rethink. Their Camden facility’s role is tactical, not strategic, but it’s vital.

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Charles Wemyss, Jr.'s avatar

When ego becomes paramount, the notion of legacy comes to the frontal lob. Like the fable of the old farmer’s wife who is taking fresh eggs to a local market in a basket on her head, as she dreams of fortune from the sold eggs her stride becomes a strut and her nose arrogantly points further upward. In a classic fall from grace the basket ultimately tips too much and the effects of gravity take over, the eggs land on the deck, dreams of wealth and prosperity dashed. One might be well to accuse many in our newly named Department of War of lining their pockets one way or the other. We have seen this in many retired flag officers in the last decade or so. The thought of heading back to Oxford, Mississippi and or St. Francisville, Louisiana to enjoy well earned retirement in quiet repose has long since been over taken by the seat on the Board of KKR. However, perhaps it is even worse than greed. The ego unchecked becomes a force, it can’t be reasoned with, it eschews facts, it denigrates those that challenge them, it fires those that won’t abide with their views. Then the ego and thoughts of a grand legacy take over, military genius, everyone will remember the brilliant and dynamic moves made to completely reshape an old and boring Corps of 250 years. (244 when this nonsense started)

Anyone seeing the basket of eggs tipping off a shiny shaved dome, the thoughts of three white stallion horses drawing his chariot majestically down Pennsylvania Avenue, a division (well now only a company of SIF Marines) marching smartly behind the chariot, a gold leafed, bay laurel wreath jaunty resting on the cranium; two small boys on white asses proceed the chariot lining the avenue with rose petals! Cheering throngs! Genius! Genius military genius, Rommel has nothing on you!” Regal hand waves to the unwashed and unshaved! “They love me! They really love me!”

“Wake up Lieutenant Binky! We’re working on land navigation at night!!”

Time to wake and smell the CS gas. Your defensive posture killed and wounded many, it was a lousy plan and now you cost the Corps and the country counting on us dearly. Hmmm that ego is looking very dented. Tick tock tick tock, but as the famous poster of Steve Prefontaine reminds, there is still 30 seconds on the clock, but we better hustle it up.

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FProctor's avatar

Unfortunately, the finger Anderson refers to is the one the Marine Corps' collective "leadership" has stuck up their own backsides.

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jakc's avatar

Saw your post. The marines were only initially given 116 tanks from those that were taken from the US Army's 3rd ACR. What could said at the time was the the Nation's premier Armor unit in was the Nation's Rapid Deployment Force. Not then nor now a good use of the nation's resources. As the 3rd ACR were already fully trained and would only have needed new equipment training lasting a few short weeks without any stand down. Whereas the Marines involved it could be said after years were never fully trained on their equipment or as a tank unit or as part of a fully functioning combined arms team. AARs from Iraq march up country to Bagdad.

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Cpl Dan USMC (Ret)'s avatar

I didn't see that in Desert Storm

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jakc's avatar

They had M60 tanks in 1991 and not the most modernized.

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Cpl Dan USMC (Ret)'s avatar

Especially Task Force Ripper covering 109 miles under fire and two minefields in 100 hours!, sorry, I missed that

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jakc's avatar

The Marines followed the US Army Tiger Brigade a Heavy Armored Combat team equipped with 116 M1s Abrams and 116 M2 Bradley's with 24 M109 155 self propelled Howitzers into Kuwait. The unit was days away from inactivation scheduled for 15 SEPT. It had almost zero equipment and a small detachment of soldiers to conduct the ceremony to shut the unit down. It was stopped from inactivation a week out and was ordered to be rebuilt. DOD determined it was quicker to rebuild and train the Army unit then to reequip the Marine tank, infantry, artillery and most importantly the support units into a combined arms unit of a BCT so equipped before the date to cross the line of departure. The 116 Tanks mentioned earlier were after the war. When congress directed the Army to give up the next tanks coming off the assembly line. Which so happened to be the latest most modernized version of M1s. Of course at no cost to the Marine Corps. Congress at the time also stopped funding for additional new build M1s for the Army.

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jakc's avatar

Everyday tests going back years show that the old Marine Corps wouldn't get to the fight or would mostly die trying. In the effort too many of America's scarce assets would be consumed for what? Heck the Houthis with their cheap missiles made the Marines ARG run away with the world watching. They then attempted one of those inappropriate even for Marines mission accomplished chest beatings. THE PRESIDENT had seen enough and brought in F35As and B1s and B2s and declared victory and sent the ARG and a CSG home! This revolution in military affairs is serious and has not fully shaken out yet. One thing is for certain and the Marines can not be looking back. Only forward with their head on a swivel.

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Polarbear's avatar

M.N.B.D.O.

I was doing some reading on the WW2 Battle for Crete, the first and only WW2 airborne assault on a major island. I wanted to check out this history because I felt modern day airborne operations (and vertical assaults) are possible against the CCP not only in the Pacific but also for other global contingencies.

I came across this acronym; M.N.B.D.O. that stands for “Mobile Naval Base Defense Organization”, a Royal Marine Group. A little more research and its purpose was to defend advanced naval bases from sea, air and land. It was composed of coastal artillery, anti-aircraft units, and its own infantry force. Hmmm…sounds like the WW2 USMC Defense Battalion.

The Battle of Crete was important strategically because if the Allies could station aircraft, bombers and fighters, on Crete they could bomb the Rumanian oil fields. The oil fields at Ploiesti (Rumania) were some of the largest and modern in Europe and were vital to the German war effort. In addition, Hitler by invading Greece would secure his southern flank in preparation to invade Russia.

The successful German invasion of the Greek mainland took only two months, even after the 450,000 British, New Zealand and Australia reinforcements were rushed to the Greek defense. A two month “blitz” campaign is impressive considering that the Greece mountainous terrain favored the British Expeditionary Force defense.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_invasion_of_Greece#/media/File:Battle_of_Greece_WWII_1941_map-en.svg

With the British retreat from Greece, Crete was now a strategic military problem for both Allies and Axis. The British controlled the sea and the Crete Island (land) domains. The Germans controlled the air domain but the airfields on Crete were still a threat to the Rumanian oil fields.

Many of the British retreating forces were evacuated to Crete for the defense of the island (primary New Zealand units). The remaining British aircraft were pulled back to Egypt. The Crete commander also sent the few fighter aircraft he had back to Egypt because they were too few to matter. He was facing off against a German air force of 280 bombers, 150 dive bombers and 180 fighters. Consequently, the air domain over Crete belonged to the German air force.

The significant advantage the British possessed was the top secret “Ultra”. Winston Churchill ordered the German airborne invasion plans passed to the Theater Commander.

Reinforcements started to flow into Crete to include the M.N.B.D.O. In addition, to the shore batteries, the MNBDO was heavy on antiaircraft batteries. The MNBDO’s mission was to protect the Naval Base and port at Suda Bay on the North Coast of Crete.

There is two basic techniques for an airborne assault. You can land on the objective using the element of surprise. The other method is to land near the objective, ensure your organization is intact for the assault on the objective. The German plan was to land paratroopers and glider units on the four northern airfields of Crete on the morning of the first day. They then planned to fly in reinforcements to secure the objectives and the remainder of the island.

Thanks to Ultra, the element of surprise was lost for the morning German air assault. The New Zealand infantry had dug-in and was waiting on Hill 107 overlooking the Maleme runways. The German main effort was pointed at the western airfield of Maleme and despite their heavy losses the paratroopers maintain pressure on the battalion holding Hill 107.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Crete#/media/File:Battle_of_crete.svg

The New Zealand commander had planned a counterattack on the Maleme airfield but never gave the order primarily due to poor communications. Consequently, the battalion holding Hill 107 withdrew allowing German reinforcements to land. Add-in the air support from 150 dive bombers, 280 bombers, and 180 fighters, the “roll up” for Crete defense forces was over in 13 days. The German command of the air domain won the battle.

The British Commonwealth casualties were 3,579+ killed and missing, 1,918 wounded and 12,254 captured. The M.N.B.D.O. contributed 1,200 POWs to the captured and went the same way as the Wake Island Marine Defense Battalion, and the 4th Marine Regiment at Corregidor. On 27 May the German forces capture the facilities at Suda Bay. “On 27 May, the Allied command recognized the situation as untenable and ordered a withdrawal” from Crete. The MLR is a bad idea especially as a SIF. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Crete S/F

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jakc's avatar

My point is this era is a like the Reagan's big five era. If you can't kill drones or kill missiles or China's boats/ships/landing craft. Don't bother. You won't be funded.

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