Compass Points - Penetrating Comments

Readers expand the discussion

Compass Points - Penetrating Comments

Readers expand the discussion

September 28, 2024

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With the flood waters from Hurricane Helene receding, Compass Points salutes all those working to repair and restore.

There are different storms around the globe threatening the safety and security of the US. What will happen next? No one knows. No matter what happens, however, there is no doubt Compass Points readers will have insightful analysis and comment.

Over the last week, Compass Points readers have responded online and off with a cornucopia of comments, insights, and analysis. Only a few of the comments are re-posted below. Most of the full comments are available for reading on the Compass Points site. As always, comments have been edited for length and content. Several long, thoughtful comments have been reduced to just a sentence or two. Often the real enjoyment comes, not as much from the excerpt included below but, from reading the comment in full. Compass Points appreciates the full, insightful, and professional comments of all readers. Many thanks!

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Douglas C Rapé

As one who has travelled extensively by boats and ships in the regions from Malaysia to Korea I have a few observations. The numbers and diversity of the ships and boats that ply these waters is hard to imagine. Those ships and boats range the entire spectrum from size to speed. The sea states in that far ranging geography cover the entire spectrum. What I cannot attest to is the Chinese ability to identify, target and hit those craft with discretion and accuracy.

Sadly, the Corps rolled out the EABO concept with no good idea how to get to the remote terrain to shoot from, how to resupply it, to medically evacuate Marines, how to keep it concealed, how to defend against missiles, aircraft, enemy Marines, unconventional forces or a rudimentary infantry force, how to keep locals from reporting on it, or how to position vehicles, radars and crew in the restrictive and varied terrains. Perhaps most critical, it focused on missiles with a very short range and has yet, after five years been able to meld it all together to detect, identify, engage and sink a moving warship. It has failed to lay out a template on how to achieve an overlapping and continues belt stretching the distance of the first island chain or redeploy forces to adjust for the maneuver options available to Chinese ships if you wish to herd them into kill zones.

I was recently told that a sense of frustration and even panic has set into planning process much like the gambler in Las Vegas who is running out of money and options.

The mostly submersible ship concept seems to confirm that.

Professionals must be hard cold realists who reduce the potential for failure with sober analysis. More visionaries shatter on the collisions with reality than we bother to document. As the Corps decided to create a way forward by first cutting off the ability to retrench, it now finds itself unable to move back if for no other reason than cost and cannot forge ahead for innumerable reasons, not the least of which is cost. To the amateur chess player “Checkmate!” Comes as a surprise. The experienced player sees the checkmate coming many moves in advance as his option narrow and is forced into the defense. The panic in the planners is that they are aware that the options are running out. It is time to rebuild the MAGTF based on the realities of what we are seeing in Ukraine and Israel.

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Jerry McAbee

Professionals would have solved the logistical issues before selling the farm. Rational thinkers would not double down on FD and advocate full steam ahead while the logistical issues remain unresolved and known show stoppers. Sad, very sad.

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Coffeejoejava

Countless people have stated what should be obvious: "Amateurs talk tactics, Professionals talk logistics"

The issue I have with FD, along with most of you, is that despite what the Corps has done, they are not ready to "Fight Tonight" with this MLR thing. There are no missiles, there are no "LSM", there is no logistics (How in gods name do you fairy dust logistics??). All we have are pretty PowerPoints and briefing papers of what it will look like "in the future".

Gentlemen, the future is now.

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polarbear

During the WW2 Guadalcanal Campaign the Japanese were hard pressed to keep their troops supplied. They attempted and resorted to two resupply techniques using submarines and fast destroyers. Neither could carry the supplies needed to sustain their forces. They even attempted slashing and linking lines of loaded 55-gallon drums that were then dropped off by destroyers near the shore. It didn't work.

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norman sheridan

What has happened to our CORPS? Where are our leaders?

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Randy Shetter

Narco semi-submersibles, eighteen to thirty plus Landing Ship Mediums which have not been built, when does this madness end? The CMC keeps doubling down, and going down the rabbit hole. The whole program should have been thoroughly thought out before implementation. It seems like they are making this up as they go. End this madness, and let the Marine Corps do what it does best: naval expeditionary warfare.

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Joel T Bowling

FD2030 has ruined our MAGTF capabilities and rendered our beloved Corps impotent and irrelevant to the other 95% of real-world threats aside from the obsession with fighting the CHICOMs on remote Pacific islands.

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Douglas C Rapé

Very patient and precise answers to uninformed and often ignorant questions. It does not take long to see who has decades of experience with actual, deployed MAGTFs and who does not.

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Jerry McAbee

It's very hard to defend EABO, FD, MLR, and SIF on their merits. Most proponents don't really try. Instead, they resort to personal attacks on those offering a better way forward for the Marine Corps. Distinguished officers such as Walt Boomer, Tony Zinni, Chuck Krulak, Jim Conway, Jack Sheehan, Charley Wilhelm, Bill Keys, Paul Van Riper and others are characterized as out of touch old men, who are simply yearning for the "good ole days." One recent attack took an even lower road, labeling those opposed to FD as "ex-officers."

Chowder II welcomes an open debate on FD, specifically has it made the Marine Corps more relevant in an increasingly dangerous world or not. MCU would be the perfect venue to get the students involved. I offer the following as the first topic in this debate: How does the Marine Corps intend to position, reposition, and logistically resupply widely dispersed SIFs inside contested areas?

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Greg Falzetta

I’m extremely disappointed to observe that for the most part, although there have been one or two exceptions, most FD proponents that have used this forum have been unprofessional and in some cases disrespectful. If these commenters are former or active duty Marines, they have done themselves and the Corps a huge disservice.

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Ray “Skip” Polak

FD 2030 proponents have been largely silent on this forum. Some of these comments pick at the edges of the “debate” but do not wade in so a rational discussion can emerge. If the current conflicts prove anything, it is that a balanced, flexible force with thoughtful integration of new technology can exist on the modern battlefield. WE used to provide that (in spades) to any CINC!

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Tom Eagen

An excellent reduction of an amateurish assault on those of us who can see "stupid" with no great effort. Use of the term “graybeards" added to the silly level of the discourse re FD, Survival let alone success requires knowing reality!

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Jeff Thompson

If FD continues, the Corps is destined to become a ceremonial unit for POTUS. The decision makers are neutering the Marine Corps and these decisions will mean Marines do burials and the President's Own. Dumping small missile units on islands in WestPac is asinine.

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MT

The LMR Stand In Force concept is so unfathomable to traditionalists because they’ve known only an offensive mindset (“close with and destroy”). But the SIF scenario in Asian waters is not about assaulting enemies, it’s about closing ranks with allies and neutrals on their own turf, in their jungles and cities. It’s pre-war staging while tensions are rising. Missiles are secondary to the American presence itself, the objective is to compel China to back down.

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Nick Rusch

There is one topic the MAGTF Snapshot missed, that of the successful role of deterrence the deployed MAGTF played from the mid 80s thru the 90s. Although hard to measure it's easy enough to look at today's world and how we are always reacting instead of shaping events as we had in the past. Our Nation's leadership continues to react to world events as if a strong military deterrence force still exists. As an example, look at US policy & actions post Oct 7th ME in an attempt to keep Iran & its proxies in line and in the Pacific restraining China's expansionist objectives. It's obvious with the failures to stop the Houthis from threatening maritime shipping and China from threatening and taking Filipino shoals that our ability to deter our adversaries has greatly diminished.

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Joel T Bowling

Exactly! I served with C/E 26th MEU (SOC) from July 1987-July 1990 and you are absolutely correct in your observations! With the advent of the "Special Operations Capable" aka "SOC" for each MEU, the lethality and versatility of the MEU was enhanced... thanks to former CMC Gen Al Gray for his keen foresight in bringing this about upon assuming his role as CMC!

I agree with the observations here... FD2030 has rendered our MAGTFs impotent and irrelevant and unable to fulfill the mission of our Corps!

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Jerry McAbee

In the comments to yesterday’s CP post, we saw a new tactic to attack those who are not aboard the FD hype train - - denigrate the Marine Corps for 70 years of mostly fabricated past failures and blame those who served during this period for the shortcomings. Today’s post should disabuse anyone of the notion that the Marine Corps was hidebound and irrelevant before Force Design.

While certainly not perfect, the Corps has always been relevant, which is sadly more than can be said for the Corps today. A case in point: When INDOPACOM recently needed a missile force to remain in the Philippines as a warning to China, the command turned to the Army’s MDTF vice the Marine Corp’s SIF.

With or without the LSM, the SIFs cannot be logistically supported. With no SIFs, the MLRs are irrelevant. Without MLRs, Force Design is irrelevant.

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G.D.

I love good Fiction stories, but the problem for the FD proponents is that they've forgotten Fiction will turn out whatever ending the author says...and just because the author writes it doesn't mean it's actually true or possible in real life. FACTUALLY, the Navy-Marine Corps team have failed to meet commitments over the past half-decade plus. Do they correlate to impacts from FD? In many ways, yes. Are they caused by FD? Perhaps. I love Gen Z - he's brilliant and I like that he focused on how we've succeeded in the past and how we've failed recently. Nevertheless, while correlation MAY include causation...correlation may also not indicate causation. Regardless, imo there does seem to be a probable causation link between FD and failure. Yelling at Greybeards has a near 100% correlation with willful ignorance though.

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Randy Shetter

Is war with China inevitable? Yes, no, I don't know, maybe so! However, some type of world crisis happening in the near future is inevitable. It could be another Benghazi event, rebels in a desert firing missiles at ships (oh, yeah, the Houthis), or a humanitarian event. If the Marine Corps is not a robust combined arms naval expeditionary force, what military force will accomplish these missions? The MEU/MAGTF is a Swiss Army knife of combat capabilities.

In the Indo-Pacific, the MEU could leave their tanks behind and carry HIMARs for precision strikes against Chinese ships. In the Mediterranean and Middle East, they could bring the tanks for land combat operations. The MEU/MAGTF are afloat worldwide for various crises. The Army cannot do it because they cannot loiter for long periods. The MEU/MAGTF in theater, is only sailing distance away from a crisis, with all their equipment. If the situation is larger than a MEU can handle, it has the building blocks to enlarge the force.

The value of the Marine Corps as a crisis intervention force is greater than as a missile force aimed at China. Which the Army already maintains. This is why the MEU/MAGTF needs to be a robust combined arms naval expeditionary force. It can be ready for anything, anywhere, anytime: Every clime and place.

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M T

It’s worth noting that DEI is NOT the law. It was never passed by Congress. DEI is based on presidential executive orders to all cabinet departments and it then snowballs depending on each agency’s initiative. Without getting into party politics, both the Senate filibuster and House factions have successfully prevented funding of WH DEI ambitions, but that hasn’t stopped existing funded EEO staff across each department from pushing it. That stated, DEI may last only as long as WH incumbents, at which point new ExOrds nullify it.

I don’t mind ‘diversity’ so long as each has earned their position. I interpret ‘inclusion’ to mean belonging, which is fine unless that means men belong in women’s quarters or restrooms, or other such extremism. But ‘equity’ is Marxism. Equity’s motto is “We all finish at a level standing.” That destroys merit; it removes all incentives to achieve.

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Lawrence Cleveland

As a 27-year Marine and combat veteran. The Marine Corps promotes on performance only. It is a level playing field and rules are in place to deter individuals from committing egregious biased performance evaluations based on prejudice.

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Alfred Karam

I am so glad that Compass Point has calmer heads than I. Some of those comments by FD disciples raise my pressure level to near explosion. CP approach in answering all and especially the ignorant comments, kept me calm. Well done, gentlemen!

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Compass Points salutes all readers who in their own ways are continuing to build the discussion about a stronger Marine Corps.

To correct a possible misunderstanding, Compass Points has been accused of mis-stating the policy of the 38^th Commandant by saying, “In the CPG the new Commandant recklessly threw away the Marine Corps' long standing requirement for enough amphibious ships for a two MEB lift.” That claim was said to be, “This is revisionist BS at best. At worst its manipulation for clicks and money.”

Compass Points regrets the confusion. Perhaps it would have been better to quote from page 4 of the 38^th Commandant’s CPG where he recklessly threw away the Marine Corps’ long standing requirement for enough amphibious ships for a two MEB lift. The quote from the CPG is:

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We will no longer use a “2.0 MEB requirement” as the foundation for our arguments regarding amphibious ship building, to determine the requisite capacity of vehicles or other capabilities, or as pertains to the Maritime Prepositioning Force. – 38^th CMC CPG

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Finally, to clear up another matter, Compass Points is entirely self-funded. Compass Points receives no funding whatsoever from clicks, readers, or sponsors. The dedicated members of the management and staff of Compass Points who produce each day’s post, work entirely for free. None of the management or staff of Compass Points are retired General Officers. The volunteers work each day solely to help the Marine Corps, and the Nation, remain strong today and stronger tomorrow.