In my opinion “The Pier” was a “political” decisions, which will eventually be revealed as counter to CentCom recommendations. It is another example of the rejection of sound military advice that resulted in Abbey Gate during the Afghanistan retreat. Read General McKensie’s “The Melting Point”.
One question that comes to mind regarding the Gaza pier is the nature of the mission. Again we see a humanitarian effort mixed with NGO’s, UN, USA civilian support and military support. Who is in charge? 8.5 Tons seems paltry in comparison to the apparent displaced and larger refugee numbers and urban war fighting going on around them.
If this was a MEU or MEB going ashore how would this be conducted, presumably once across the beach the Marine force would need a lot of tonnage to support ongoing operations. Is there intersectionality between the two kinds of operations that can be stitched together to make a better mousetrap because it seems this one ain’t working.
From jump knowing sea state, the beach topography and the area, couldn’t a couple of old freighters or tankers headed for the scrapper, be brought in and run up on the beach as far as possible and basically sunk in place and used as a break water for the pier? If you need four old ships to get it done sink four. At this point any issues about the environmental impacts seem moot.
Not to throw stones but if the MEU or larger had engineers they might have some ideas as well. If not our own engineers, surely the Seabees would have a handle on the effort.
All decisons have results and consequences. The pier is one grand example of decisons big and small having a larger impact.
Frankly, the optimum solution were the nearby permissive ports, one to the north, and one to the south. These could have easily handled much greater volume/mass of cargo. Both have simple routes and friendly security forces to assist in safe guarding trucks from the offload to the designated supply points. Your final sentence/point is well made. (This is not an opinion on the political value of the JLOTS effort. I do think there was value in deploying the JLOTS, if only to give us an indicator of readiness).
Further example cfrog, of local knowledge having the ability to discern a better solution in this case. I just myopically looked at the problem and thought “why not try to manage the area and sea environment presenting itself?” Again myopically how would this affect a MEU or bigger when presented with a similar situation? Sounds like find two better ports close by and use them! You would think after all these sorts of mixed humanitarian and quasi military operations over the last 30:or so years, the know.edge base would be large enough for on scene operators/ commanders to say “remember when this happened and how it was solved at that time…” etc., etc. it seems like a lack of alignment somewhere, but easy to armchair quarterback. Thanks for the insights.
The Compass Point comments about the failure of the Gaza pier are not supported by the pier article you posted. United Nations Security halted aid distribution after 270 Palestinians were killed during the hostage rescue done in the pier area. Until the flow halt the report states that 19.4 MILLION TONS of food aid had gone across the pier into the staging area. Compass Point describing the aid delivery as a TRICKLE is misinformation. A correction is required if there is honorable intent.
Furthermore, tons of the aid are now being moved to warehouses in Gaza. The pier has stopped moving aid because tons of delivered aid is not being moved and the staging arrea is full. An earlier CentCom report stated the storm that damaged the pier initially was unusual for the time of year. You should retract your error now. This kind of polical attack is highly unprofessional and seriously damages
The latest article on the pier says 19.4 million pounds of aid have crossed the Gaza pier, not "19.4 MILLION TONS" you state, which would equate to about 8.5 tons of aid per person in the Gaza strip. Maybe a correction is in order?
If we rewind MCCP I think the concept received a universal thumbs down. Latest news someone in the administration wants Israel to give up a couple of Patriots and send them to Ukraine. It is difficult to refrain from commenting on this request, but I will.
As citizens of a Constitutional Republic not serving on active duty it is Our Prerogative to comment regarding decisions made by our elected civilian leaders. It is even more important that we point out decision made not by the elected officials but by members of the State Department vice Department of Defense etc. etc. .
I will answer Jerry McAbee with a full winded comment. Yes, I erred in stating the amount of aid that has crossed the Gaza Pier into Gaza. Thank you for the correction. Nevertheless, my inadvertent error, and criticism of it, misses the far more important reason for my comment. I still contend that Compass Points owes a correction to misinformation. Possibly, as with FD 2030 editorial policies, those of us with varying opinions should sit down and be quiet. Surely, this is not your intent Gen. McAbee in the manner by which you corrected me.
To begin with the beginning, the title is, "Marine Corps Compass Points for a Stronger Marine Corps." It is a very official appearing title. By my old fashioned standards, an official Marine Corps forum, as Compass Points claims to be by its very title, should not be a political forum. Even so, the description Compass Points uses against the humanitarian, political decision to establish the U. S. Army floating pier along the Gaza coast, amounts to a political attack on President Biden's order to establish the pier. It is a Compass Points political attack because the article contains serious misinformation that should be corrected.
More specifically, the Compass Points editorial states, "Only a trickle of supplies has moved across the pier and even fewer supplies have actually been distributed." There is certainly a big difference between the "tons" I mistakenly used and the unit measure of "pounds" used in the Compass Points article. But millions of pounds is not a "trickle." Compass Points then goes on to state, "Beyond this, one unsuccessful decision, how do institutions make better decisions?" In my opinion, this is a political attack. It is a senseless political attack. It is wrong and I will continue to speak out about it.
President Biden, our Commander-in-Chief, made this Gaza Pier decision as the Head of State. We are a very diverse nation and a part of that diversity is the American Palestinian contingency. The pier was a political decision. It was an audacious decision made for a starving population facing genocide because it was having 2000 pound bombs dropped on its urban areas. It was a desperate, political decision.
I will have more to say regarding the legality of military officers and politics. I, Gen. McAbee, have dropped a 2000 pound bomb. On a flat bed of a flat bed truck in the Yuma desert. It evaporated. I was once a dive bomber who could also fight. Will there be a Compass Points correction? I've acknowledged my error. Robert
In my opinion “The Pier” was a “political” decisions, which will eventually be revealed as counter to CentCom recommendations. It is another example of the rejection of sound military advice that resulted in Abbey Gate during the Afghanistan retreat. Read General McKensie’s “The Melting Point”.
One question that comes to mind regarding the Gaza pier is the nature of the mission. Again we see a humanitarian effort mixed with NGO’s, UN, USA civilian support and military support. Who is in charge? 8.5 Tons seems paltry in comparison to the apparent displaced and larger refugee numbers and urban war fighting going on around them.
If this was a MEU or MEB going ashore how would this be conducted, presumably once across the beach the Marine force would need a lot of tonnage to support ongoing operations. Is there intersectionality between the two kinds of operations that can be stitched together to make a better mousetrap because it seems this one ain’t working.
From jump knowing sea state, the beach topography and the area, couldn’t a couple of old freighters or tankers headed for the scrapper, be brought in and run up on the beach as far as possible and basically sunk in place and used as a break water for the pier? If you need four old ships to get it done sink four. At this point any issues about the environmental impacts seem moot.
Not to throw stones but if the MEU or larger had engineers they might have some ideas as well. If not our own engineers, surely the Seabees would have a handle on the effort.
All decisons have results and consequences. The pier is one grand example of decisons big and small having a larger impact.
Frankly, the optimum solution were the nearby permissive ports, one to the north, and one to the south. These could have easily handled much greater volume/mass of cargo. Both have simple routes and friendly security forces to assist in safe guarding trucks from the offload to the designated supply points. Your final sentence/point is well made. (This is not an opinion on the political value of the JLOTS effort. I do think there was value in deploying the JLOTS, if only to give us an indicator of readiness).
Further example cfrog, of local knowledge having the ability to discern a better solution in this case. I just myopically looked at the problem and thought “why not try to manage the area and sea environment presenting itself?” Again myopically how would this affect a MEU or bigger when presented with a similar situation? Sounds like find two better ports close by and use them! You would think after all these sorts of mixed humanitarian and quasi military operations over the last 30:or so years, the know.edge base would be large enough for on scene operators/ commanders to say “remember when this happened and how it was solved at that time…” etc., etc. it seems like a lack of alignment somewhere, but easy to armchair quarterback. Thanks for the insights.
The Compass Point comments about the failure of the Gaza pier are not supported by the pier article you posted. United Nations Security halted aid distribution after 270 Palestinians were killed during the hostage rescue done in the pier area. Until the flow halt the report states that 19.4 MILLION TONS of food aid had gone across the pier into the staging area. Compass Point describing the aid delivery as a TRICKLE is misinformation. A correction is required if there is honorable intent.
Furthermore, tons of the aid are now being moved to warehouses in Gaza. The pier has stopped moving aid because tons of delivered aid is not being moved and the staging arrea is full. An earlier CentCom report stated the storm that damaged the pier initially was unusual for the time of year. You should retract your error now. This kind of polical attack is highly unprofessional and seriously damages
your credibility as a counter to Force Design.
The latest article on the pier says 19.4 million pounds of aid have crossed the Gaza pier, not "19.4 MILLION TONS" you state, which would equate to about 8.5 tons of aid per person in the Gaza strip. Maybe a correction is in order?
saved round - - here's the link: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gaza-aid-pier-dismantled-us-israel-hamas-war/
If we rewind MCCP I think the concept received a universal thumbs down. Latest news someone in the administration wants Israel to give up a couple of Patriots and send them to Ukraine. It is difficult to refrain from commenting on this request, but I will.
As citizens of a Constitutional Republic not serving on active duty it is Our Prerogative to comment regarding decisions made by our elected civilian leaders. It is even more important that we point out decision made not by the elected officials but by members of the State Department vice Department of Defense etc. etc. .
I will answer Jerry McAbee with a full winded comment. Yes, I erred in stating the amount of aid that has crossed the Gaza Pier into Gaza. Thank you for the correction. Nevertheless, my inadvertent error, and criticism of it, misses the far more important reason for my comment. I still contend that Compass Points owes a correction to misinformation. Possibly, as with FD 2030 editorial policies, those of us with varying opinions should sit down and be quiet. Surely, this is not your intent Gen. McAbee in the manner by which you corrected me.
To begin with the beginning, the title is, "Marine Corps Compass Points for a Stronger Marine Corps." It is a very official appearing title. By my old fashioned standards, an official Marine Corps forum, as Compass Points claims to be by its very title, should not be a political forum. Even so, the description Compass Points uses against the humanitarian, political decision to establish the U. S. Army floating pier along the Gaza coast, amounts to a political attack on President Biden's order to establish the pier. It is a Compass Points political attack because the article contains serious misinformation that should be corrected.
More specifically, the Compass Points editorial states, "Only a trickle of supplies has moved across the pier and even fewer supplies have actually been distributed." There is certainly a big difference between the "tons" I mistakenly used and the unit measure of "pounds" used in the Compass Points article. But millions of pounds is not a "trickle." Compass Points then goes on to state, "Beyond this, one unsuccessful decision, how do institutions make better decisions?" In my opinion, this is a political attack. It is a senseless political attack. It is wrong and I will continue to speak out about it.
President Biden, our Commander-in-Chief, made this Gaza Pier decision as the Head of State. We are a very diverse nation and a part of that diversity is the American Palestinian contingency. The pier was a political decision. It was an audacious decision made for a starving population facing genocide because it was having 2000 pound bombs dropped on its urban areas. It was a desperate, political decision.
I will have more to say regarding the legality of military officers and politics. I, Gen. McAbee, have dropped a 2000 pound bomb. On a flat bed of a flat bed truck in the Yuma desert. It evaporated. I was once a dive bomber who could also fight. Will there be a Compass Points correction? I've acknowledged my error. Robert
Also, please note, the CP quoted article described TONS of aid being moved to Gaza warehouses.jjjjj
Correction “decision”.
Roger that!!